Hypnosis -vs-Meditation

[Anonymous]

Hi, Instructors!

I had someone state that they thought hypnosis (particularly self-hypnosis) was the same as meditation. I could only say I wasn’t sure about that. This question came from a former psychotherapist. But, one time, I was at a hypnosis-related workshop (auto-suggestion in the workplace, really) and was called up to be a participant. However, I was the only one who couldn’t “go under.” The facilitator asked if I was a meditator, and I said, “Yes.” He said, “That explains it. Those who meditate usually don’t fall under suggestion or hypnosis.” So, I personally feel they are different. Interesting … what do you think?

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[kreasnormanddy]

It’s an interesting reflection on the potential relationship between meditation and susceptibility to hypnosis. While both practices involve focused states of consciousness, they serve different purposes and mechanisms. Meditation often cultivates mindfulness and awareness, enhancing one’s control over their mental processes. Hypnosis, on the other hand, involves a state of heightened suggestibility. While it’s conceivable that a deeply experienced meditator might exhibit more mental resilience, susceptibility to hypnosis can vary widely among individuals regardless of their meditation background. It’s a fascinating intersection of psychology and contemplative practices, and the differing responses might be attributed to a combination of individual differences and the nature of the hypnotic suggestions presented.
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[jkalt]

Very good ideas Jonelle. I love this connection you made to Milarepa’s songs. That sounds like an interesting book, I think I’ll check it out.

[Anonymous]

@Joseph Faria — Very interesting. Thanks for this. I was just reading one of Milarepa’s songs about the alaya, storehouse of mental impressions (subconscious) — “The Alaya Consciousness is the good earth/The inner teaching is the seed that is sowed,/ Achievement in meditation is the sprout,/ And the Three Bodies of Buddha are the ripened crops….” (p.107, Hundred Thousand Songs of Milarepa, Chang) In this regard, the subconscious is important in creating a good ground of karma in order to practice, clearing out nonvirtuous habits & laying the ground of virtue, and meditation is where the wisdom is brought forward to flourish. Accessing the alaya alone (perhaps through hypnosis) can’t do that, but it could be part of clearing the ground for unobstructed meditation practice to follow. Just ideas … thanks to Milarepa.

[sherap87]

This conversation reminded me of an article by the contemporary Buddhist Scholar B. Alan Wallace, in which he briefly compares deep sleep and hypnosis as means to access what can be referred to as the ‘substrate consciousness,’ an extremely subtle and deep state of consciousness (as described by Buddhist contemplatives) that is the ground of our normal experiences–but he observes that it is ‘most effectively accessed’ through meditative practice, where such a state can be completely recognized through stable, unperturbed awareness:

“The substrate consciousness may be characterized as the relative ground state of the individual mind, in the sense that, within the context of an individual mind-stream, it entails the lowest possible state of activity, with the highest possible potential and degree of freedom or possibility. For example, once an individual stream of consciousness has been catalyzed from its own substrate in dreamless sleep, it can freely manifest in a vast diversity of dreamscapes and experiences. **Such exceptional creativity is also displayed while under deep hypnosis, which also taps into the substrate consciousness.** But this potential is most effectively accessed when one lucidly penetrates to the substrate consciousness by means of meditative quiescence. In this case, one is vividly aware of the substrate, in contrast to the dullness that normally characterizes
dreamless sleep. Buddhist contemplatives report that such fully conscious realization of the relative ground state of consciousness opens up a tremendous wellspring of creativity, which is largely obscured in the normal experiences of the substrate while sleeping or dying.” (http://www.scribd.com/doc/23465572/Wallace-Alan-B-Vacuum-States-of-Consciousness-A-Tibetan-Buddhist-View)

I think that the essence here, as Edwin described, is that meditation is characterized by awareness; so while hypnosis may theoretically tap into similar states of consciousness, it perhaps does not carry the same potential as complete recognition and familiarity with such states of mind would. At any rate, I have no experience with hypnosis–and limited experience with meditation at that–so my insight here is limited in this sense. My instinct, however, is that there should be no reason why meditation and hypnosis could not both be employed as methods of enhancing exceptional degrees of mental health. I hope my contribution here was relevant, and I must say this is an intriguing topic of discussion! Best wishes~

[edwin]

I know nothing about hypnosis, so I don’t feel qualified to say anything about it. However, I think meditation is something different, at least the way Mingyur Rinpoche teaches it. I have heard Rinpoche say innumerable times that ‘Awareness is the essence of meditation.’ He also says that awareness is part of our basic goodness. It is inherent, with us all the time, all that is missing is recognition. So leaning to meditate, at least the Joy of Living level 1, is leaning the skill of recognizing awareness in this moment, anywhere, anytime. This does not sound like anything I would call hypnosis. If fact it sounds more like the opposite if hypnosis means being put into a state where you are not aware of what is happening. However that is not the way Robin H is describing hypnosis. So like most, I probably harbor a few misconceptions of what hypnosis is.

[Anonymous]

Interesting, Robin H. Thanks for another look at hypnosis.

[robin53]

Hypnosis has a very bad rap because of its association with stage hypnotists who seemingly can get people to bark like dogs and such, but medical hypnosis is a recognized and relatively commonly utilized modality used by psychologists. Milton Erickson is a famous pioneer in the use of hypnosis for therapeutic uses. If you search on hypnosis and therapy, you’ll see the expected bogus junk you always see on the internet, but you’ll also see links to very mainstream sources.

This, for instance, is from the University of Maryland Medical Center’s website, on their intro page on hypnotherapy, which they do use:
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
How does hypnosis work?
When something happens to us, we remember it and learn a particular behavior in response to what happened. Each time something similar happens, our physical and emotional reactions attached to the memory are repeated. In some cases these reactions are unhealthy. In some forms of hypnotherapy, a trained therapist guides you to remember the event that led to the first reaction, separate the memory from the learned behavior, and replace unhealthy behaviors with new, healthier ones.
During hypnosis, your body relaxes and your thoughts become more focused. Like other relaxation techniques, hypnosis lowers blood pressure and heart rate, and changes certain types of brain wave activity. In this relaxed state, you will feel at ease physically yet fully awake mentally and may be highly responsive to suggestion. If you are trying to quit smoking, for example, a therapist’s suggestion may help convince you that you will not like the taste of cigarettes in the future. Some people respond better to hypnotic suggestion than others.
There are several stages of hypnosis:

Reframing the problem
Becoming relaxed, then absorbed (deeply engaged in the words or images presented by a hypnotherapist)
Dissociating (letting go of critical thoughts)
Responding (complying with a hypnotherapist’s suggestions)
Returning to usual awareness
Reflecting on the experience
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
I don’t know how the above might correlate with meditation. Anything I would say would be just me theorizing, since my knowledge of meditative states is not advanced.

I will say that I learned Ericksonian self-hypnosis quite easily some time ago and can use it to put myself into a relaxed state if I wish. So saying that a meditator is not a good candidate for hypnosis does not make sense to me. Is the relaxed state I go into a meditative state? Again, I am absolutely no expert, but my gut feeling is that there must be differences. I wouldn’t, for instance, decide on a given day to use self hypnosis instead of meditating because “it’s the same thing.” On the other hand, it’s true that once I was in a hypnotic trance I could decide to meditate. And it is also true that the method I use to go into the trance state is nothing more than a series of sights, sounds and sensations that I focus on in a certain order. It is really a focusing of awareness. So the two might have more in common than I realize. Someone with more knowledge would have to address it.

[jkalt]

Hi Jonelle,
I was reading about what scientists say about the state of hypnosis and the most agreed upon theory is that during hypnosis it’s the subconscious mind that is basically operating without the conscious mind in the way. I have a question. In regards to meditation there is reference to monkey mind and awareness. Could a parallel be drawn between monkey mind and conscious and then between awareness and subconscious mind?

I’m personally inclined to think not since to me hypnosis seems to have a hokey connotation and meditation seems more rooted. But I have no experience with hypnosis and know very little about it.

[Anonymous]

Hi, Jen.

Yes, maybe hypnosis is more of a dream state (or between dream & awake), and meditation is more about staying awake. Again, I don’t know. I’m only feeling my way around … anyone can jumpin.

[jkalt]

I don’t have any info on this, just a comment. I was actually thinking about this today while watching Pink Panther cartoons with my son. 🙂 The cartoon was about hypnosis and I remembered when I knew some people who would go for fun to see a hypnotist at a club some years back. They said that some people called on stage could not go under and speculated on the reasons why. I was just wondering to myself if meditators could be hypnotized and I thought not because it would seem a person who meditated would be less able to fall under the power of suggestion. The whole untrained vs trained mind thing. I had a hard time picturing a trained monk being hypnotized. 🙂

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