Ups and Downs of Ngondro Practice

[cortland]

I thought it might be nice to make some space for us to discuss how we’re working with the foundational practices. With a family and a busy job, finding the space for ngondro has certainly been a challenge for me, but at the same time i really love the practice and have derived tremendous benefit from it.

I wonder how you are all doing with your practice. Hopefully you’ve had a chance to watch some of the new CDs/DVDs we put out recently. Are there other materials/resources that we could create to support your practice? Any other thoughts/suggestions?

Topic

[maxm]

[lisakramerhunt]

It was wonderful reading everyone’s comments on Ngondro practice. I have recently started the Vajrasattva Practice. Initially the most difficulty I had was doing the prostrations physically because of severe back degeneration. Tim suggested visualizing this part of the practice, which I did very slowly, because it is easy to go fast and then get distracted. I still do this visualization during the Vajrasattva Practice. My husband and I practice between 4 and 5 every morning. This has been beneficial starting very early in the morning. My “up” is noticing how there are moments when I am unable to “attach” myself to difficulties in my life. I find there is a natural inclination to be kinder and to connect with others. I am less afraid of going by myself. Just this morning I had a slight feeling that the “mud” was gone and I was completely pure. I am looking forward to doing the Ngondro practice in January!

[justin]

His Holiness Karmapa is currently in Germany. His first set of teachings is on Ngondro. They are quite good an inspiring.

Here is the link if you have not already found it.

http://kagyuoffice.org/webcast/

Happy meditating!!

[dmspema]

@ Carole – Thanks for sharing your ngondro practice journey. I found your comment about not being hard on yourself when discipline for ngondro practice loses steam, a great reminder. When I judge myself for getting off track, it causes further procrastination. I’m looking forward to short solo retreats this summer to keep my ngondro practice alive on a daily basis, rather than on the start-stop track.

[clmilligan]

I receive a big dose of inspiration for my ngondro practice when I attended Tsoknyi Rinpoche’s month-long retreat in the fall and divided my time between ngondro (prostrations) and nature of mind. I have since just completed the prostration section and will be starting Vajrasattva practice. I am fortunate to be able to get concurrent instruction from Tim Olmsted, who is our resident teacher in Steamboat Springs, so I am delighted that he is going to be officially responding to questions and topics in the Path of Liberation group. I have found that keeping a daily practice commitment has had challenges despite being retired, but I have worked through some of the challenges of varying routines and travel, which have often been stumbling blocks for me before, by trying to be as consistent as possible and not beating myself up when I “don’t get around to it”, which has become less and less frequent. As I start Vajrasattva, I will be going on a short (5 day) solo retreat. There is nothing like meditating 6-8 hours a day to make a daily hour seem doable. I have also found Mingyur Rinpoche’s CD/DVDs on Ngondro very helpful and inspiring. Within our sangha we have also had a book/study group on other topics, but it has provided a lot of inspiration for practice in general, and has given those of us doing ngondro an opportunity to share a bit with each other, which has also been inspiring and motivating.

[taly]

I’m always glad to see a post here. I’m not close to a center and am mostly doing this on my own, with occasional help and support by phone or at retreat.

As far as the “ups and downs.” Yes. Both. I am recently coming out of a period of about 6 mos when I felt pretty unmotivated, uninspired. Even as I was approaching and completed 100,000 prostrations. (Someone told me that can be a hard time for some people and they quit. That knowledge was helpful.) I did keep practicing through that time, not the 10 or so hours a week I’d done before (and am doing again), but I’d get in 2 or 3 days a week just to not let it drop out of my life.

Maybe some lungta has returned because I am glad to have ngondro a part of my daily routine again. I do still feel resistance sometimes (“I’m too tired.” “But I wanted to have time for ____ and this will use up all my free time”), so many reasons to put it off until later. Mostly I just ignore those and once I’m into the practice, feelings begin to flow – of its value, of how wonderful it is to offer my time there, of appreciation to all who made it possible for me to practice – not always, but often.

It works for me to have ngondro as a daily practice. There are days when, between work and other things, it just doesn’t happen. But I go from the premise each day that there will be time for ngondro. Without that, I’m afraid I’d let it slip away. Still, it will probably be another 4 or 5 years before I finish. That’s pretty hard, and also really good. Cools my heels on the “What’s next?” & “I want to get someplace.” front.

For all of you, may you be blessed with every good fortune and help in your practice and life!

[justin]

Hey everyone!!!

I noticed that this forum started with gusto, but seems to have been reduced to a slow crawl of activity once every few months. Hopefully that means everyone is bearing down on Ngondro so hard there is no time for posts!!

Hope all are well….I am still crawling along at a snails pace ☺

Rinpoche’s recent letter can only help to stay motivated !!!

[clmilligan]

Here is a straight on question for someone with some knowledge. This summer I started using The Nectar of a Simple Yogi thinking I would likely do the shorter ngondro. However, as I have gotten into it, I have extended my practice time, and seen the value of the process, so want to do the longer ngondro. I have pretty much been following the suggested guidelines for contemplation and am in the middle of “the fourth thought”, though I have now accumulated more than 10000 prostrations. I have seen no real instructions for the long form beyond Rinpoche’s DVDs, so should I change liturgies? And, if so, when? Is the structure of contemplation the same…..focusing more time on one area, or should the contemplation be done within the context of the liturgical repetition? Also, when doing prostrations I have been using the short version of refuge, does one do that with the long version or do you use the full refuge as written in the liturgy? Currently, I am on a month-long practice retreat with Tsoknyi Rinpoche, and will continue to do what I have been doing until such time as get more information. Thanks, carole

[justin]

@ Scott,
Rinpoche usually advises a structure for day-long retreats as follows, using the 4 session-a-day format traditionally used in many Tibetan Buddhist Lineages. When you are starting out Rinpoche usually advises to make the first and last sessions, shorter, and the middle two longer, but in essence you should do what you are comfortable with. The key is to not do too much too soon, and burn out.
An example schedule is below (times of course can be adjusted to your comfort level…..
Session 1: Early AM (6AM-7:30AM)
Breakfast
Session 2: Late AM (9AM-11AM)
Lunch
Session 3: Early Afternoon (1PM-3PM)
Dinner
Session 4: Late Afternoon/Early Evening (6pm-7:30pm)

Also, I would recommend looking at the link to Rinpoche’s monthly teachings on this web forum. I believe the first video has some instruction on how to structure a day-long or weekend long retreat.

Hope this helps & best of luck !!!

[scottanderson]

In continuing to practice the preliminaries, it’s almost time to carve out a weekend for dedicated practice. Does anybody have a template for what those weekends may look like? I see that we’re asked to complete two practice weekends to fulfill the PoL I requirements, and am looking for any documents that describe how to organize said weekend.

Thanks for any help,

Scott

[justin]

I am still at it as well!
My goal is to finish the foundations by the time Rinpoche returns from retreat, but my ability to accomplish this goal seems to change by the month! I really like the preliminaries, but I can tell you from experience, it takes a lot longer to do them when you have a family, a job, ect….

I have also found Rinpoche’s video teachings on the practice really helpful. One, just hearing a little of his teachings now and then keep me motivated, and two, his teachings are so clear and simple they really help me stay focused, both on and off the cushion.

[snowdrift108]

Hi everybody. I’m so glad to be in this sangha. I’ve really appreciated reading about others’ experiences with ngondro. I’ve been practicing the preliminaries for over a decade, interweaving them with other practices and family,job. I’ve taken a week’s solitary retreat yearly to focus on them. That’s been great, but I struggle during the rest of the year to dedicate enough time to accrue a significant number of repetitions. So I’m still at it, half finished with Guru Yoga, but at my rate, I have a couple years left. Sigh. I love the idea of participating in a weekend virtual retreat and encouraging each other! We are so fortunate to have these teachings and practices! Thanks to everyone. Maura

[marigpa]

Scott – I relate to your comments and that of other posters. My composite body is disentegrating faster than I can accomplish prostrations. (Indeed, i now personally understand the adage – youth is wasted on the young). I have found moving into mantra practice after 7 half prostations and dissolving the refuge tree, to be a way of maintaining health and inspiration. And i often lay on my back for part of my mantra practice. This useed to really bother me (anything that bohter’s “me is an oppurtunity to burn ego grasping?) but Mingyur Rinpoches gentleness (an example is in this months teaaching), and through discussions with Tim Olmsted, have helped relax my projections as to “not doing it right.”
I once heard Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche state “In Tibet there are many Ngondros – Quite frankly, unllike in the west, there’s not much else to do!”
Or as Yoda says – “don’t try -do.”
Maybe Inspiration and Aspiration are as important as Perspiration. And they come with at least 31 flavors!

Tashi delek – mark

[scottanderson]

Practicing the prostrations has been an illuminating addition to practice – very enthused about this path. I’ve been surprised, however, at how fatiguing they can be. I’ve always been quite fit and physically active, and I’ve been surprised at how demanding they can be… is anybody else finding this to be the case, too?

[maxm]

Cort– Great idea. I’m planning ngondro practice days. First one is next month.

Jane, ngondro ‘making roads’ is a good way to out it. Prostrations really help add the shamatha to objectless shamatha, and the nature to nature of mind!

[janetara]

I’ve been doing Ngondro for the last 4 years under the guidance of Lama Norhla Rinpoche and hope to finish the prostrations soon. Am also working on the other three. I think it’s taking me a long time but really do hope to finish it all in the next two years.

Have had to make many adjustments in the way I do prostrations – my body can’t take the full prostrations any more. Now this all sounds like a big chore – but it’s worth it. Ngondro has made in roads for me that previous years of meditation couldn’t touch.

Mingyur Rinpoche’s DVDs are a big help. Best wishes to all who are taking this on.

[cortland]

We made a decision to keep St Johns focused on Nature of Mind practice, but i’m sure we could do some weekends out east. We do at least one day a quarter here in MSP devoted to MSP practice. You could also get a group together and watch one of the DVDs, then practice together.

[maxm]

Practicing with 40 people in Karmapa’s shrine room certainly qualifies as an ‘up’ in ngondro practice for me, even if the body ( and sinuses) didn’t always cooperate. Here’s a link to a short youtube video with Lama Karma Drodul guiding us on the Chariot for Traveling the Noble Path:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8lrc_EWOS4

I attended the first of these a few years back and there were about 6 people in attendance. Lama Karma spoke today about how some people said that the group probably would not last at the time, but it has instead grown because of the dedication of the students to their teachers.

I plan to do a solitary, and also like the virtual idea, but it would be great if we could practice together. It’s like riding in a wake at times. Cort, do you think we could get a module for recalcitrant prostrators (like me) at St. John’s this year?

[cortland]

I’d love to. Let me know when and where.

[maxm]

I’m up at KTD in Woodstock for group ngondro practice in the main shrine room this weekend. There are a lot of folks here this time— it’s really grown over the past few years!

Cort, if you can come up with dates that work for you this year maybe a group of us can organize a small retreat. Perhaps later in the year?

Kathy, yeah the videos opened up the practice in new ways for me too!

[kathy]

I’d also be interested in a virtual group – agreeing to practice over a certain weekend and then discussing. I feel the YMR DVDs have uplifted my Mandala practice substantially. Wondering if anyone else has had that experience.

[cortland]

I think the idea of a group-solitary is wonderful. i’ve thought about doing this too. for me, family be the issue, but i’d love to take part if i can.

[maxm]

I’m going to go do some practice…. now. But first:

Stephanie, I have been looking into doing a ngondro retreat this year. Recall that you, Matt, and I discussed doing something together, sort of ‘combined solitary’. If we can come up with suitable date and place maybe there will be a small group interested in forming.

[stephanie]

I’ve also found that finding time for the practice in the midst of a very busy corporate job has been a challenge. What has worked for me is to get up early every morning at 6 to practice before work. My practice was going well (I also love it) until I started getting ready to move (which is happening on January 14th). My energy right now seems to be tied up in moving.

Fortunately our new home will have a separate meditation room where I can practice whenever I want (yay!) Until the move is complete, I’m trying to have some gentleness on myself and also (trying) not to feel bad that I haven’t been able to do the practice as often as I like. I know that Lama Trinley’s Ngondro teaching weekend in Minneapolis will be wonderful.

How have others worked the practice in their busy lives? Is anyone carving out time for more intense periods of practice? Is there anyone interested in doing a ngondro retreat together?

[Author]

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